Archive for RCCGB FORUM Message Board for Members of the Roller Coaster Club of Great Britain to discuss club events and all things theme park related.          RCCGB FORUM Forum Index -> Polls for whatever Andy Hine MBE THORPE's NEXT COASTER? With a steel B&M inverter (Nemesis Inferno), a steel Intamin launch coaster (Stealth) , a steel Intamin multi-looper (Colossus), a steel Gerstlauer Euro-Fighter (SAW), a steel Mack family coaster (Flying Fish) and a steel Vekoma indoor coaster (X:/No Way Out) what should Thorpe's next coaster be? JamesC Thorpe should definitely get a woodie next. That's exactly what the UK needs - a major park to build a woodie. When it proves popular other parks around the country will get building them too! c anderson Lets have a Renegade, but I am surprised that you have not suggested that a copy of Phoenix would be ideal, such fun on a coaster that everybody can ride and enjoy. Death Well...Before we start discussing ideas for Thorpe's next coaster, let's at least allow them to get their latest one working better and more reliably than a Class 458, at least! Oh, and my vote goes for a 750ft, 512mph HyperWoodie with a good few high-speed inversions and some insanely tight helixes thrown in for good measure! Rough Rider Great idea Nev I'm all for a woodie .....................Hmm! Lets build a"RATTLER" replica That will definately bring in the crowds. AND, it wont break down on launch day   Nemesis Nick Re: THORPE's NEXT COASTER? Andy Hine MBE wrote: With a steel B&M inverter (Nemesis Inferno), a steel Intamin launch coaster (Stealth) , a steel Intamin multi-looper (Colossus), a steel Gerstlauer Euro-Fighter (SAW), a steel Mack family coaster (Flying Fish) and a steel Vekoma indoor coaster (X:/No Way Out) what should Thorpe's next coaster be? They definitely need a wooden coaster at Thorpe Park.  Just one problem, where would they put it?  The Park seemed pretty packed to me last Saturday.  Have they got room left for any new rides? Not sure what type would be best for Thorpe Park.  Either something similar to Big Dipper, or a 2-lane Moebius loop coaster like Grand National.  Perhaps even a scenic railway with an operator on board, like Roller Coaster at Great Yarmouth Pleasure Beach.  Whichever type they go for, it should have a 1.2 metre minimum height rather than 1.4 metres minimum.  That way if the Club went back there again, younger members could enjoy the ERS too.  Don't bother with lighting effects like SAW - they're totally unnecessary, in my opinion. stealth fan Somehow I think Thorpe would'nt invest in a Scenic Railway with a brakeman, save it for the seaside   Would Voyage fit? Even though I have never ridden a Woodie in the States. It just looks good, as does the Phoenix. Death Thinking about it, they have now removed the Thorpe Farm branch of the Canada Creek Railway... If it's possible to make a "quiet" Woodie over at the Thorpe village end, does anyone reckon we could be seeing one with a station around Canada Creek and an interesting out and back layout around the old farm buildings? Coaster Police They need an El Toro! That'd be a huge success in the UK, because we simply don't have it or anything that comes anywhere close to that ride!  It's just mental! JamesC Coaster Police wrote: They need an El Toro! That'd be a huge success in the UK, because we simply don't have it or anything that comes anywhere close to that ride!  It's just mental! Yes definitely! A smaller version of El Toro, or something like Balder would be fantastic! On the SAW-TED trip I noticed that there was a lot of new land behind the Stealth/Tidal Wave area. So I guess that will be the place for any future coasters. coaster-andy Thorpe with a woody would be great but we will we never see new wood. Take alook at Toverland and that Pholon park who I cannot remember getting a GCI also called El Toro and that has some small coasters in its park. There is room in the park fill in more lake and take it to Treasure Island which was, out back Island behing Rumba Rapids or maybe Stealth to the left abit. We could get a Balder in there or even a El Toro. I am not holding out hope for any UK park getting a new Woodie. Nemesis Nick coaster-andy wrote: I am not holding out hope for any UK park getting a new Woodie. What makes you think that?  When we were at Loopathon Alton Towers in 2006, the General Manager announced the possibility of a wooden coaster.  This was also mentioned in Airtime Issue 60 - September / October 2006  Does anyone know what came of that proposal in the end? On the other hand, last June I paid a visit to Flambards in Cornwall, and asked a ride attendant if they've plans to build a wooden coaster.   He said "No, they cost too much to maintain". Coaster Police http://www.rccgb.co.uk/images/at/at14-0.jpg And that was 1998.... still nothing   Andy Hine MBE Nemesis Nick wrote: On the other hand, last June I paid a visit to Flambards in Cornwall, and asked a ride attendant if they've plans to build a wooden coaster.   He said "No, they cost too much to maintain". Nick, tell him thats rubbish!  As long as there is a good maintenance plan in place they don't give any hassle.  For example, Megafobia - one day of downtime since 1996, and that was only due to a fire, Phoenix - no downtime since 1985, etc, etc.  Now lets look at steelies, Stealth - one of operation since 2006, AIR - everyday, SAW, everyday! WOOD IS GOOOOOOD!! stevencaine saw everyday there having no luck with that coaster at the moment Thorpe has go too sort its maintenance out and i do agree the next coaster at Thorpe has too be WOOD coaster-andy Andy Hine MBE wrote: Nemesis Nick wrote: On the other hand, last June I paid a visit to Flambards in Cornwall, and asked a ride attendant if they've plans to build a wooden coaster.   He said "No, they cost too much to maintain". Nick, tell him thats rubbish!  As long as there is a good maintenance plan in place they don't give any hassle.  For example, Megafobia - one day of downtime since 1996, and that was only due to a fire, Phoenix - no downtime since 1985, etc, etc.  Now lets look at steelies, Stealth - one of operation since 2006, AIR - everyday, SAW, everyday! WOOD IS GOOOOOOD!! On the maintenance issue this was one of the issues also with Flamingoland proposed  wooden coaster. It is making sure that they have a good team in place to make sure that the coaster works and is maintained properly.But I must say wooden coasters are more reliable than steel coasters but convince some UK parks of this is hard. I would love to see a great woody in the UK again but I don't see it as we are a nation of complainers so when a park puts planning in they get told it is to noisey. Rough Rider Coaster Police wrote: They need an El Toro! That'd be a huge success in the UK, because we simply don't have it or anything that comes anywhere close to that ride!  It's just mental! "IT'S JUST GOT TO BE ANOTHER "VOYAGE"...............or even better "RATTLER"   Andy Hine MBE Ryan, I've found a wooden rattler just for you... http://www.littlebundles.co.uk/prodpage.asp?ProdID=545 Rough Rider Andy Hine MBE wrote: Nemesis Nick wrote: On the other hand, last June I paid a visit to Flambards in Cornwall, and asked a ride attendant if they've plans to build a wooden coaster.   He said "No, they cost too much to maintain". Nick, tell him thats rubbish!  As long as there is a good maintenance plan in place they don't give any hassle.  For example, Megafobia - one day of downtime since 1996, and that was only due to a fire, Phoenix - no downtime since 1985, etc, etc.  Now lets look at steelies, Stealth - one of operation since 2006, AIR - everyday, SAW, everyday! WOOD IS GOOOOOOD!! Couldn't agree more Nev Rough Rider Andy Hine MBE wrote: Ryan, I've found a wooden rattler just for you... http://www.littlebundles.co.uk/prodpage.asp?ProdID=545 Hilarious Nev   Sticks & stones Nemesis Nick Andy Hine MBE wrote: Nemesis Nick wrote: On the other hand, last June I paid a visit to Flambards in Cornwall, and asked a ride attendant if they've plans to build a wooden coaster.   He said "No, they cost too much to maintain". Nick, tell him thats rubbish!  As long as there is a good maintenance plan in place they don't give any hassle.  For example, Megafobia - one day of downtime since 1996, and that was only due to a fire, Phoenix - no downtime since 1985, etc, etc.  Now lets look at steelies, Stealth - one of operation since 2006, AIR - everyday, SAW, everyday! WOOD IS GOOOOOOD!! Why do woodies seem to be more reliable than steelies Andy?  Could it possibly be additional trip switches / brakes / safety devices on a steelie which are a necessity due to vertical drops, loops, barrel rolls, horizontal corkscrews (as in Colossus) - i.e. features that you can't build into woodies. Do you think SAW will always be as unreliable as last Saturday?  Or will they manage to sort out the problems, e.g. make trip switches less sensitive whilst still not compromising safety?  I read in a national daily paper back in 1998 that when Oblivion first opened at Alton Towers, the ride had a habit of stopping at the top of the drop, due to an over-sensitive trip switch.  Evidently something must have been done, but it still stopped at some point during our early morning Oblivion ERS during Loopathon Alton Towers 2006 (I saw that happen, but luckily wasn't on it at the time). For your information, the day I went to Flambards last year (and wore my 20th anniversary RCCGB T-shirt for the first time) I was on Hornet Coaster (a family steelie) and the ride stopped at the bottom of the lift.  A trip switch had tripped, and everyone on board had to wait for the on-site electrician to come and reset it.  Once he'd done that, we were on the wayt again.  You'll be glad to know, I had the confidence to have more goes on the Hornet Coaster later in the day.  Would you have got a similar problem on a woodie, i.e. trip switch failing? meatloaf Come on Andy - surely I can't be the only one waiting anxiously for your reply to Nicks questions ......       Death Thinking about it, it might simply be a case of differing technical and legal standards between the two. Woodies - Having been a part of theme and amusement parks for over a hundred years - Were already established as a relatively safe technology, with updates to the standard only being made after serious incidents like the Battersea disaster. Furthermore, a standard operational practice for woodies appears to be the dispatching of train 2 only when train 1 has already been stopped at or has passed the safety brake, thereby leaving the entire track and lift-hill clear for the next train. Steelies on the other hand are still relatively new in coaster terms, and - Being capable of much more complex actions (Loops, heartlines etc.) - They have to adhere to much stricter designs and standards in operation...Hence the greater amount of sensors and control gear required. That, and the advent of fail-safe logic based control systems now allows coasters to be designed that can accommodate a number of cars/trains on the track at the same time, and this alone requires a lot of additional control equipment to ensure adequete spacing and continuity of trains in the system. Remember that when steelies were first built and operated, safety standards were much higher than they were when the first woodies were opened to the public! In my past spent playing around with NoLimits, I've created some truly insane woodies - With LIM launches, loops, barrel-rolls and even heartlines - That are pretty much closer to steelies than traditional woodies. When running simulations on those rides though, I've found the number of block related stoppages and pauses to be no less than that of the average steelie! As a simple comparison: Next time ye are at Oakwood, compare the difference in the operator's panels between Megafobia and Speed... The panel on Megafobia - Which contains the entire ride control system - Is a relatively simple device about the size of the average fridge, that only has to manage two trains across three blocks (IIRC: The transfer table is operated manually and isn't part of the ride control system) and doesn't have too much to deal with - Bar checking the spacing of trains, checking that all bars have been lowered before dispatch, and reactively operating both brakes and lift-hill. . On the other hand, the panel on Speed is a much more complicated design that relays a lot of information to the operator (With the guts of the system being located below the operator's cabin) about status of the ride, lift-hill, brakes and everything else. Aside from Speed having three trains and 5-6 sectional blocks to deal with, the checking of trains and all other parts of the system (Such as the location of lifting "dogs" on the chain) is far more intensive. Add to this that Speed's transfer table is computer operated (Thus the siding is also included in the continual system checks) and that the computer also pro-actively monitors and regulates train speed over brake sections, Speed's operational control system has to handle and compute a lot more data than Megafobia's! Conclusion: The reason for Steelies being a lot less "reliable" than Woodies is simply because they are a whole lot more complicated in both design and general operation, and need a lot more checking to ensure that they are working in a safe and proper manner. After all, a precautionary stoppage thrown in the event of doubt is far better than a near miss or bad accident...And steelies - Having more "features" available than a woodie - Simply have a lot more that needs monitoring to ensure that they stay safe! Happy Helen Some people prefer the sound of woodies, rather than steelies. Rough Rider Andy Hine MBE wrote: Nemesis Nick wrote: On the other hand, last June I paid a visit to Flambards in Cornwall, and asked a ride attendant if they've plans to build a wooden coaster.   He said "No, they cost too much to maintain". Nick, tell him thats rubbish!  As long as there is a good maintenance plan in place they don't give any hassle.  For example, Megafobia - one day of downtime since 1996, and that was only due to a fire, Phoenix - no downtime since 1985, etc, etc.  Now lets look at steelies, Stealth - one of operation since 2006, AIR - everyday, SAW, everyday! WOOD IS GOOOOOOD!! Whay! Hay! Nev.................way to go!!!   ucozade6 Wood has to be wood I would like it to be wood as long as they don't do something stupid for advertising reasons. E.g. a launch woodie that has a naf layout like Rita. Am I missing something? Why is it (apart from trying to sell something as a world's first) that some of the UK parks don't go and ask for something similar to a golden ticket award winner? Why is it they would not take as suggested on here and go and build a world beating woodie by copying closely a wodie from the states. People would flock to a ride that did not cost £700 in air fares? I realise planning permission for a woodie is as hard and as frustating as trying to convience Argos not to play their Christmas CD yet but, stop trying constantly to build ill concieved world's first and build quality. (Rant over). LOL Kind Regards David nemesis scribe How about a ride made out of plastic . . . an example could be like one of  those 'exciting' slides neme Nick keeps telling us about??     reg All I have to say on this matter is 'Ravine Flyer 2' Thanks :O) USfriends Hey Adam Does it make you feel weird having the same first name as Nemesis Nick?   frosty Reg is right - if they are going to put in a woody best make it a good one: Ravine Flyer II, El Toro - something of that ilk. Once more and more of the UK public sample such wooden delights then appreciation will grow and it could only be good for the park in terms of publicity and word of mouth. Other parks may then follow suit. Nice to see the votes are for wood and er, wood nemesis scribe USfriends wrote: Hey Adam Does it make you feel weird having the same first name as Nemesis Nick?   Haha, grrrrrrrrrrrr i had the name first     You should join our merry gang and become 'nemesis US Friends' or 'nemesis seahawks'       bluea61 I doubt Thorpe would bother with a woodie, they like cheap and painful What about a Pinfari? nemesis scribe bluea61 wrote: I doubt Thorpe would bother with a woodie, they like cheap and painful What about a Pinfari? Ooooooooooooooooooo they should get a BOOMERANG!!!!!!!   BAGuru If a park wants to bring in the punters they should look at building a wooden coaster, something on the lines of RENEGADE, RAVINE FLYER 2, CORNBALL EXPRESS or even LOST COASTER OF SUPERSTITION MOUNTAIN. Look what happened when Oakwood put in MEGAFOBIA !!! It has to fit in with space and terrain and must have the back-up of a good maintenance team. We have ridden some coasters in the past which were, to put it mildly, rough as old boots (Ryan - you know the ones I'm talking about!!) coz they weren't maintained. Steel is thrill but for sheer enjoyment it has to be WOOD. And what is WOOD.............??? Coaster Police Flammable!   BAGuru LOL     Death bluea61 wrote: I doubt Thorpe would bother with a woodie, they like cheap and painful What about a Pinfari? If it wasn't for them having got Stealth a few years ago, I would've suggested a wooden version of Kingda Ka...Although the 128mph launch is a bit on the slow side anyway, so I'd have to "tweak" the hydraulics a bit to increase that to a more reasonable 1,024mph or so. As they already have a lunched coaster though, I suppose they could always go for a woodie version of Nemesis. Obviously they'd have to forget about inverted track (Even I can see that would be near impossible! ) but copying the layout would give a pretty enjoyable and intense ride, IMO! Thinking of "cheap 'n' painful" though, I wonder if Ryan H might be able to suggest a good one?        RCCGB FORUM Forum Index -> Polls for whatever Page 1 of 1